Help → Getting Gmail, POPFile & AVG Free Working Together

Getting Gmail, POPFile & AVG Free Working Together

Using:

POPFile 1.0.1
AVG Free 8.0.159
OE 6.00.2900.5512
XP Home SP3

My ISP, DSL Extreme, just contracted with Google to provide email service. Previously when using the DSL Extreme mail servers I had no problems running AVG Free and POPFile together. However, since transitioning to Gmail I can't get POPFile to work with AVG also installed. Here's my set-up:

OE:

Servers Tab: Incoming mail: 127.0.0.1, Outgoing mail: 127.0.0.1

Incoming mail server:

Account name: my complete DSL Extreme email address

Log on using secure password authentication is unchecked

Outgoing mail server

My server requires authentication is checked

Settings:

Log in information

Log on using is checked

Account name: my complete DSL Extreme email address

Log on using secure password authentication is not checked

Advanced Tab: Server port numbers, 5200 for outgoing & 5100 for incoming

This server requires a secure connection (SSL) is unchecked in both places

AVG:
POP3:

POP3 server name: AutoPOP3
Type of log in: Fixed host (pop.gmail.com:995
Local port: 5100
Use APOP when available is checked
Connection: SSL
Email client POP3 server settings: Server:"127.0.0.1:5100".Login:"User"
Activate this server is checked

SMTP:

SMTP server name: AutoSMTP
Relay host, Fixed host is checked (smtp.gmail.com:465)
Local port: 5200
Queue processing: automatic
Connection: SSL
Email client SMTP server settings: 127.0.0.1:5200
Activate this server is checked

POPFile:

POP3 listen port: 5100
POP3 host port user separator character is a colon
Allow concurrent POP3 connections: yes

Under this exact configuration I get AVG working correctly for both incoming and outgoing email. However, if I activate POPFile I get a log in window that has my use name and password. When I click on OK nothing happens and the log in window reappears. Can someone please help me get POPfile working again? Thanks.

Ken

  • Message #437

    Since you are able to send and receive email when using only OE and AVG I will not say anything about the AVG settings. (I'm still using AVG 7.5 so my settings are not exactly the same as the ones you are using).

    You are almost there! I think all you need to do to get POPFile activated is to make the following changes to POPFile and OE:

    POPFile changes:
    POPFile Listen port: 123

    OE Changes to "Servers" tab:
    Incoming Mail Server Account Name: 127.0.0.1:5100:my complete DSL Extreme email address

    (e.g. if your complete email address was [email protected] then set the login to 127.0.0.1:5100:[email protected])

    Do not change the "Log on using" username (my complete DSL Extreme email address) which you access via the "Settings" button, it needs to be different from the incoming mail server account name because POPFile only handles incoming mail.

    OE Changes to "Advanced" tab:
    Incoming mail (POP3) port: 123

    What these changes do is make OE use POPFile and AVG to get your incoming mail and leave OE and AVG to handle your outgoing email.

    POPFile needs to be told to use AVG to connect to the mail server which is why "127.0.0.1:5100:" is added to the front of your normal log in name. This makes POPFile log in to the AVG server on port 5100 which will then make the SSL connection to Gmail.

    Brian
    (edit: correct a spelling mistake)

    • Message #438

      Brian,

      I followed your instructions carefully but when I start OE I get the following error message: The connection to the server has failed. Account 'dsl extreme', server: 127.0.0.1. Protocol: POP3, port 123, secure (SSL), no socket error: 10061, error number 0x800CCC0e

      Any suggestions? Thanks for your assistance.

      Ken

      • Message #439

        secure (SSL)

        Your mail client seems to be connecting POPFile using SSL.
        You should turn off the SSL connection in your mail client configurations.

        Naoki

        • Message #441

          "This server requires a secure connection (SSL)" in OE is turnd off.

          • Message #443

            I'm sorry. I've misread the error message.

            I followed your instructions carefully but when I start OE I get the following error message: The connection to the server has failed. Account 'dsl extreme', server: 127.0.0.1. Protocol: POP3, port 123, secure (SSL), no socket error: 10061, error number 0x800CCC0e

            The bold part would be:

            Secure (SSL): No,

            BTW, have you restarted POPFile after changing the incoming POP3 port?

            Naoki

            • Message #445

              Yes I did.

      • Message #442

        I followed your instructions carefully but ...

        I'm not really surprised - I found it very difficult to work out how you had configured OE and AVG :)

        I think the best thing to do is put things back to the state where OE and AVG are working together and you are able to see that AVG really is scanning incoming and outgoing email.

        Then take some screenshots of the OE configuration screens and email them all to me (brian _at_ getpopfile.org). Once I see exactly what you've done to get OE and AVG working together I should be able to give you some better instructions.

        One thing that confused me is that AVG have swapped the suggested ports for the POP3 and SMTP servers: AVG 7.5's FAQ uses port 5200 for the POP3 server and 5100 for the SMTP one but AVG 8.0's FAQ says use port 5100 for the POP3 server and 5200 for the SMTP one!

        Brian

        • Message #446

          In setting up AVG & OE I followed the instructions contained in AVG FAQ 1288. I would be glad to send you screen shots if I knew how to do that. Please tell me how to do it and I will send them to you forthwith. Thanks

          Ken

          • Message #447

            In setting up AVG & OE I followed the instructions contained in AVG FAQ 1288

            I still use AVG 7.5 which works slightly differently from AVG 8.0. When I looked for the equivalent instructions in the AVG 8.0 FAQ I found some in FAQ 1286 and failed to notice the adjacent FAQ (1288) about Gmail! (FAQs 1286 and 1288 are almost identical.)

            I would be glad to send you screen shots if I knew how to do that. Please tell me how to do it and I will send them to you forthwith.

            Do you mean you are not sure how to make the screenshots or you are not sure how to attach them to an email or you need help with both tasks?

            But before we start down that path it has, finally, just occurred to me that the simplest explanation for the "The connection to the server has failed. Account 'dsl extreme', server: 127.0.0.1. Protocol: POP3, port 123, secure (SSL), no socket error: 10061, error number 0x800CCC0e" error message is that POPFile is not running.

            An easy way to check this is to use the Message Capture utility.

            First shut down POPFile (if it is running). Now run the Message Capture utility from the Start Menu:

            Start -- All Programs -- POPFile -- Support -- Message Capture utility

            After a few seconds you should see some messages appear in the utility's window, ending with

            POPFile Engine v1.0.1 running
            

            This message means POPFile is now ready for use.

            If you see something like

            A copy of POPFile appears to be running.
             Attempting to signal the previous copy.
             Waiting 10 seconds for a reply.
            
             A copy of POPFile is running.
             It has signaled that it is alive with process ID: 894843
            Failed to start while starting the config module at C:\PROGRAM FILES\101-CLEAN/POPFile/Loader.pm line 646.
            

            then you will need to close the Message Capture utility window, shut down POPFile and try running the Message Capture utility from the Start Menu again.

            The "POPFile Engine v1.0.1 running" message means that POPFile is now ready to handle your email.

            Try using OE again. Do you get the same error? Do any new messages appear in the Message Capture utility? For example it is possible that something goes wrong with POPFile when OE tries to check for new mail.

            Brian

            • Message #448

              When POPFile was not working I shut down the program and deleted it from my startup file via msconfig. Yesterday, while trying it I ran POPFile from the Start all programs, start POPFile. That's when I received the error notices I sent you. Now I went back in to msconfig and added POPFile to the startup menu, restarted the computer and it appears to be working. At least I'm not getting any error messages when I start OE. I can't tell yet if it is working as I haven't received any incoming mail. I assume it is working if my messages are preceded with unconfirmed or spam in brackets. I'll let you know when I'm sure either way.

              I don't know how to make screen shots. I do know how to attach them to outgoing email.

              Thanks for staying with me on this issue.

              Ken

              • Message #449

                I'm not sure POPFile is doing its job. I received several messages that should have been marked unclassified but wasn't. I ran the message capture utility and this is partly what it said: A copy of POPFile is running. It has signaled that it is alive with process ID: 996. Failed to start while starting the config mode at S\program files....
                Status code: 0

                Is this a problem?

                • Message #450

                  Is this a problem?

                  The Message Capture utility is another way to run POPFile. This means you need to use it instead of the way you normally start POPFile.

                  The "A copy of POPFile is running. It has signaled that it is alive with process ID..." message means that POPFile is already running so the Message Capture utility is unable to start POPFile.

                  All you need to do is shut down POPFile before you try to use the Message Capture utility. If the Message Capture utility is able to start POPFile you should see the "POPFile Engine v1.0.1 running" message I mentioned earlier.

                  Brian

                  • Message #453

                    I shut down POPFile & then ran the utility. It says "POPFile Engine v1.0.1. running. The green progress bar at the top of the utility shows about 75% complete but does not complete 100%. All I can do is minimize it. Is this normal? Shouldn't the program work without having to go through this process every time I start my computer? Is there a test message that can be sent me that will prove it is screening my incoming mail? Thanks for the info about screen shots. Do you still want me to send these to you? Thanks.

                    • Message #455

                      The green progress bar at the top of the utility shows about 75% complete but does not complete 100%. All I can do is minimize it. Is this normal?

                      Yes. The Message Capture utility starts POPFile, displays all of the console messages output by POPFile and waits for POPFile to shutdown (or crash!). The progress bar will not reach 100% until POPFile has stopped running. After POPFile has stopped running you will be able to close the Message Capture utility window.

                      Shouldn't the program work without having to go through this process every time I start my computer?

                      The Message Capture utility is a debugging aid which makes it easy to see, and save, error messages and warnings which are normally hidden. Sometimes POPFile will detect a problem and shut itself down and in these cases the Message Capture utility can provide vital information.

                      If you are able to use OE to check for email without seeing any messages appearing in the Message Capture utility's window after the "POPFile Engine v1.0.1 running" line then you can shutdown POPFile, close the Message Capture utility and go back to your normal method for starting POPFile.

                      I suggested using the Message Capture utility because it seemed that something was stopping POPFile from running.

                      The POPFile wiki has some Message Capture utility documentation

                      Is there a test message that can be sent me that will prove it is screening my incoming mail?

                      POPFile keeps a temporary copy of all the mail which it has processed. By default this mail is kept for 2 days and then deleted. You should see this mail listed on the HISTORY page in POPFile's User Interface (http://localhost:8080 is the default address).

                      Thanks for the info about screen shots. Do you still want me to send these to you?

                      I don't think that will be necessary now; it seems your problem was that POPFile was not running when OE tried to check for new email.

                      Brian

                      • Message #465

                        Thanks Brian. I looked at the history file and it captured all my incoming email. However, all messages were sent to my inbox. Since this is a fairly new installation because I bought a new computer I would have expected to see more mail with the designation [unconfirmed]. This isn't happening now. When I first installed the program there was a lot of [unconfirmed] tags and I also created about 6 magnets. But since going to Gmail I haven't received one that had [unconfirmed] tag. It may be a coincidence or something happened to affect the program when I changed OE, AVG & POPFile to bring it into line with Gmail. That was the concern I was trying to express to you earlier. Thanks.

                        Ken

                        • Message #467

                          But since going to Gmail I haven't received one that had [unconfirmed] tag. It may be a coincidence ...

                          Gmail has an effective spam filter which stops a lot of spam from reaching your email account so you will probably see a lot less spam than you did before you started using Gmail.

                          By default Gmail's POP3 access only lets your email client see email which arrives in your Gmail account's "Inbox" folder.

                          If a message looks suspicious then Gmail will put that message in a special "spam" folder kept on the Gmail server. Mail in this folder will NOT be delivered to your mail client when you use POP3 access to check your incoming mail.

                          Gmail will automatically delete any messages which have been in this special 'spam' folder for 30 days. Therefore you really should use your browser to login to your Gmail account more than once a month to make sure that no legitimate email has ended up in this special 'spam' folder, otherwise you will lose that email.

                          In the past couple of years I have only had to move 5 or 6 messages out of this spam folder because Gmail had mistakenly thought they were spam.

                          There is a lot of HELP available at the Gmail site. Here is just one example: http://mail.google.com/mail/help/about.html

                          Brian

                          • Message #471

                            Then I guess I don't understand exactly how POPFile works. I thought that when you start a new installation the user has to teach POPFile to learn which incoming messages are valid and which are spam from scratch. I also thought POPFile had zero knowledge about differentiating between spam and non-spam messages on a clean install. Therefore, I thought I had to teach it on every new message. What am I not understanding?

                            Ken

                            • Message #472

                              What am I not understanding?

                              That I am not a mind reader :)

                              Here is what you said when you started this topic:

                              My ISP, DSL Extreme, just contracted with Google to provide email service. Previously when using the DSL Extreme mail servers I had no problems running AVG Free and POPFile together. However, since transitioning to Gmail I can't get POPFile to work with AVG also installed. ... Can someone please help me get POPfile working again?

                              To me that says you had a working installation then your ISP switched over to Gmail which requires SSL and when you tried to reconfigure your setup to use SSL you could not get it to work.

                              There is no mention whatsoever that this is a brand new installation with an empty database.

                              I thought that when you start a new installation the user has to teach POPFile to learn which incoming messages are valid and which are spam from scratch.

                              Not necessarily - you can transfer the database from another installation, even one from an older version of POPFile, and the new installation will use that database.

                              I also thought POPFile had zero knowledge about differentiating between spam and non-spam messages on a clean install.

                              If you start from scratch then you need to create at least two buckets and you need to classify at least one message to each of these buckets.

                              Note that the “unclassified” bucket is not counted as one of the two minimum buckets. “Unclassified” is only used by POPFile when it cannot decide which bucket to use for a particular message. In other words the BUCKETS page in the POPFile User Interface must show at least three buckets; the two you have created plus the special “unclassified” one.

                              There is some guidance about training in the POPFile wiki, e.g. Training POPFile

                              Brian

                              • Message #475

                                You are absolutely Right about why I started this thread. I bought a new computer in June. My old computer would not start due to a power surge plus my HD was burned up in the process. So All my POPFile documentation was lost. So I had to do a new install on the new computer. That went well and was functioning normally until my ISP went with Gmail. Getting POPFile to work with Gmail was then the most important problem facing me. I didn't want to cloud up the issue with it being a new install...it was complicated enough without adding these other issues. With your wonderful help we got it working. Once that major problem was solved I then shifted to dealing with the secondary problem which I described earlier.

                                So here I am asking for help on the issue of whether POPFile is effectively scanning my incoming messages (for all I know it is. In that case all I need is for someone to tell me so and I'll stop worrying). I have had 3 buckets all along: inbox, Spam, Unclassified. Since going with Gmail all messages have gone into the inbox bucket (through it internal process or because of magnets I have set up). Perhaps that's OK and doesn't indicate the presence of a program problem, perhaps it's not. That's all I'm trying to resolve at this point. You've gone a long ways with me and that's why I'm trying to give you an explanation for the way I did things. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate all the time, patience, and effort you gave me. If you want to discontinue the subject I'll understand. Either way, I thank you for all you have done.

                                Ken

                                • Message #477

                                  Once that major problem was solved I then shifted to dealing with the secondary problem which I described earlier.

                                  It might have been better to start a new topic which explained that you had re-installed POPFile and were not sure that it was really classifying your mail.

                                  I have had 3 buckets all along: inbox, Spam, Unclassified.

                                  The BUCKETS page in the POPFile User Interface has some statistics that might put your mind at rest:

                                  Classification Accuracy
                                  Messages classified
                                  Classification errors
                                  Accuracy

                                  Messages Classified
                                  gives the numbers of messages classified for each bucket

                                  If you are only using POPFile to handle mail from your Gmail-based "DSL Extreme" account and new messages are appearing in POPFile's HISTORY page then POPFile is handling your incoming mail.

                                  If the classification counts for the "inbox" and "spam" buckets have values greater than zero then POPFile has some information about how to classify your incoming mail.

                                  POPFile is a quick learner so you may be surprised at how little information it needs in order to achieve good performance. There is no need to classify every incoming new message - in fact this is NOT recommended; see TOE (Train Only on Errors) for further details.

                                  If your "Messages Classified" count is over 500 then your accuracy should be pretty good. The latest POPFile Statistics show that 93.58% of the users who report their statistics to us achieve between 95% and 100% accuracy once they have classified over 500 messages.

                                  Since going with Gmail all messages have gone into the inbox bucket

                                  As I tried to explain earlier - changing to the Gmail service could have resulted in a dramatic reduction in the amount of spam you receive.

                                  A friend of mine was struggling to cope with a deluge of spam (about 95% of her mail was spam) but when she switched to Gmail at the beginning of the year the spam literally disappeared overnight. Since she switched to Gmail less than 6 spam messages have appeared in her inbox.

                                  If you want to discontinue the subject I'll understand

                                  If I was upset my reply would have been much shorter and probably written entirely in uppercase :)

                                  Brian

                                  • Message #484

                                    In retrospect I should have started a new thread. I was just being lazy. My statistics: 768 classified. Accuracy: 96.35%. 3 spam (0.39%). All this fits your description for most users. I'm feeling much better and have gained confidence in the program. BTW, my buckets settings are: Subject header modification: spam & unclassified are checked, X text classification header: all are checked, X-POPFile link header: all are checked, Quarantine message: none are checked. I'm assuming these are the correct settings.

                                    thank you for getting me through this. You have a lot of patience and I truly appreciate your help.

                                    Ken

                                    • Message #495

                                      My statistics: 768 classified. Accuracy: 96.35%. 3 spam (0.39%).

                                      Now that you have got past the initial training period you should find that you do not need to reclassify many messages. If that is the case then you can reset the statistics as described in the wiki. This will give you a more accurate performance measure (because it does not include the errors made during the training period).

                                      my buckets settings are: Subject header modification: spam & unclassified are checked, X text classification header: all are checked, X-POPFile link header: all are checked, Quarantine message: none are checked.

                                      There is no harm in leaving these settings as they are. The important column is the Subject Header Modification one because that is the one Outlook Express uses to filter your mail.

                                      Outlook Express cannot use the X-Text-Classification and X-POPFile-Link Headers so if you want you can safely remove the ticks from those two columns. Doing that will stop POPFile from adding a couple of lines to the header of each message so it means POPFile has a little less work to do.

                                      Brian

              • Message #451

                I don't know how to make screen shots.

                There are lots of ways to do this. Since I don't know what software is installed on your computer, I think the safest thing for me to do is describe how to use the features that come with Windows XP.

                What I am interested in is just the contents of the various OE settings screens, not your entire desktop. If you display the "Servers" tab, for example, then hold down the ALT key and press the "Print Screen" key on the keyboard the contents of the active window (the "Servers" one) will get copied to the clipboard.

                Some keyboards use "Print Scrn" or a similar abbreviation instead of "Print Screen".

                The "active window" normally has a blue title bar running along the top edge of the window (assuming you are using the default Windows colour scheme).

                If you do not hold the ALT key down and simply press the "Print Screen" key then an image of your entire desktop will be copied and this will result in a huge file being created!

                Now start the Paint program (which comes free with Windows XP) and paste the contents of the clipboard into it and then save the results as a file. This file can then be attached to an email. You can attach more than one file to an email message.

                Microsoft have an illustrated step-by-step guide to making screenshots here: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/tips/screenshot.mspx

                This might sound a bit complicated but it is really quite easy, once you've done it a few times.

                Brian